James Swagger Interview Part I

Well, readers, I have a treat for you today. Joining me all the way from Ireland is the charismatic Capricorn Radio host  E.A James Swagger, better known as James Swagger. James Swagger has a Master’s degree in engineering, a Bachelor’s degree in Physics and Astronomy, and a Master’s degree in Science, Research, and Society from Cambridge and he currently lectures at Oxford University. Anyone with those impressive credentials would be set for life. He has recently written a book called The New Grange-Sirius Mystery: Linking Passage Grave Cosmology with Dogon Symbology.  A fascinating read about megalithic passage graves and monuments in Ireland (some of them discovered by him) and their relationship to astronomical phenomena. Available on kindle. You ancient alien theorists will love this book which explores stars like Sirius and Cassiopeia and their relationship to the passage graves. Ufologist, that means you as well. Even people interested in mythology will be interested in knowing who the architects of these megalithic sites were. Could it be a mythological Celtic tribe?

Since this interview is lengthy, I decided to split into 3 parts, while preserving his Irish accent as much as I can in writing. In this segment, we briefly discuss the background of the passage graves and complexes that compelled him to write this book. We discuss the significance of the light entering the chamber at the Newgrange passage grave through a special light box, how the Dogon Tribe in Western Africa had artwork that is similar to ones found at the megalithic sites in Ireland and Europe,  and we also discuss the mythological race called Tua De Danann and their possible link to mythical island, Hy Brasil.    

Melinda: Hello James, thanks for joining us today. So, what got you involved with Newgrange in the first place? 

James Swagger:  That would have been two aspects. I had recently, a few years ago, shown a friend around these megalithic sites-as you would do with people coming into your country. It’s customary to show people around these ancient sites. One such site has some rock art depicting constellations. He asked many good questions and, at that time, I had done physics with an astronomy degree. And, obviously,  my engineering career. So I was able to answer some questions fruitfully. It reignited a passion I have for megalithic sites.

 Since that day, I delved into more sites dealing with the constellations. And, uh, which I probably would not have done had I not been shown that initial spark of questioning. I discovered more rock art that hadn’t been discovered in its true sense and its true meaning. And I also realized then, that there were places that haven’t been discovered, and that I didn’t know were there. So, on a second line of thought, I wrote for a historical magazine which was published online in Ireland. With my engineering expertise, I was able to give readers of the magazine a fuller and better understanding of historical missions. How they built the pyramids for example. I’ve also always had, eh, historical creative writing in me in terms of compiling articles about various articles around world. And I thought that I would actually compile all this, and write a chapter on the megalithic civilization of Western Europe.

 I turned one chapter into a book and called it The Newgrange- Sirius Mystery. I naively thought that I’d write one chapter and realized that it was a book. I thought that I’d do it well and do it right. And, eh, try to put my expertise in it, which is I work in the engineering trade as a systems analysis. The megalithic civilization is very much a system. A system of engineering construction and a system of astronomy. It’s a system of many mysteries including how they got their logistics and moved their material. So, you might say that I’m a systems analysis to the megalithic civilization. 

Melinda: This is architecture, does your engineering expertise translates well into architecture?

James Swagger: Very much so. Not so much on how they’re built, because it’s pretty much the tombs that I concentrate on. They are relatively small although there are capstones weighing 150 tons! But, relatively speaking, multiple things can be explained through engineering. Though it’s difficult to explain where the building materials were from, and the sheer effort it takes to align these structures. Basically, architectural planning, the reasoning for it, can also be explained with physics and astronomy. Of course, being able to apply an engineering eye to, eh, to the construction does help.

Melinda: So can you explain some of the details of the Newgrange structure? 

James Swagger: Well, yeah, the Newgrange complex is situated in the Boyne Valley. The Boyne Valley hosts the river Boyne. The New Boyne Valley hosts Newgrange and Dowth, which are both in the book. These are quite big monuments too. The landscape is a kilometer from each other and they also have baby mounds around them as well. There’s a total of 40 mounds. The Newgrange complex is considered the most sophisticated complex in the world in terms of grounds layout, orientation, and the overall scheme that was employed.  

 Melinda:Can you explain how the architecture is related to celestial phenomena? 

James Swagger: Newgrange itself, focuses on significant stellar phenomena because it captures a beam of sunlight every year for fifteen minutes at 8:58 a.m. at the shortest day of the year, the 21^st of December. Typically, it can sometimes be the 22^nd or 23^rd depending on the year that it falls on. The 24^th of the December is the accepted date for the winter solstice and on this day it captures a beam of sunlight in the morning. And not only that, the passage way is quite long…about 20 meters. And to get the sun to penetrate that deep into the mound, is quite a feat of engineering. Most people don’t realize how difficult it is to do that. Before you do that, you’d have to plan how you’re going to build the mound.  

Melinda: How long would it take?

 James Swagger: You would probably have to spend at least fifty years finding a spot in the structure that can capture that beam of sunlight.

Melinda:  How did they get the light to actually enter the mound?

James Swagger: The meandering passageway effectively blocks out the sunlight as you walk in. The sunlight comes through Newgrange in a special light box above the doorway, then travels in straight lines, and into the center of the chamber. Now, as you walk in the doorway which is below the center of the roof box, not only does the passageway meander left and right, it also ascends up to the central point of the chamber.  To actually get that feat, they actually raised the passageway! So, it has a very sophisticated interior layout just to capture the beam of light that it’s famous for.

Melinda: The stones at the site have interesting markings. One of them points to Sirius if I’m not mistaken. 

James Swagger: Sure. Yeah, again, that’s the outside kerb stone and the entrance stone which has a central marker on it. The line at the center of the stone lines up with the roof box where the sunbeam enters so we know that this is the central marker for the stone. To the left of the central marker you have a triple spiral which aligns to the star Sirius. I show that in the book. Ummm, however, the stars do shift over long periods of time, and in the time that Newgrange was built,  the star Sirius would have hit the triple spiral on the outside kerb stone. But it would have never stayed on this triple spiral, it would have actually migrated into the central chamber doing exactly what the sun does. Um, and then it would have  passed and migrated out of the chamber to the right hand side of the stone. 

So, my theory [The New Grange Sirius Theory], is that the triple spirals are to signify the alignment of the triple star system Sirius with the triple spiral on the outside kerb stone.  And the triple spiral that’s inside the chamber, is to signify the event when the star Sirius enters the chamber just like the sun did [with its rays of light].  It did that on the same day as the sun event on the winter solstice, December 24th. Twelve hours later, when the sun went down, the star Sirius was on the horizon doing exactly the same thing that it was doing when it was entering the chamber. That’s why they picked that special day of the year.

Melinda: And that would be related to the Dogon tribe, right? Their deity where from the Sirius constellation?

James Swagger.:  Yeah, their teachers or Gods called the Nommo. That’s a whole other entity if you want to call it that. A whole other area of research. My line of reasoning is that the only thing we have is their writing system at Newgrange, which is basically artwork. Some of the artwork is astronomy based and some of it’s symbology based, so it’s open to interpretation.  But a lot of it is effectively astronomy based, and therefore able to be deciphered, if you want to call it that. When you see something very complex being represented in art, it’s a no brainer. It’s quite easy to understand.   

The Dogon, who are this tribe from Western Africa, have long talked about their affiliation with the star Sirius. They also have the spirals and sunwheel. The megalithic civilizations, and not just Newgrange, but also Malta and Loughcrew as well,  use this Dogon sunwheel. The other passage grave which is one kilometer from New Grange, Dowth, also has the Dogon sunwheel. And it’s not just the same art, Melinda, it’s actually the same art representing the same complex theme.  So the spirals represent the same things. 

Melinda: What was the sunwheel used for?

James Swagger: The Dogon sunwheel is effectively is representing a complex astronomical concept, Melinda. If you want to call it that. When the sun rises on the horizon on the special day of the year, let’s call it, spring, autumn [fall],  summer solstice…it doesn’t really matter. One of these special days the sun would rise and would quickly drown out the stars at sunrise. That’s called a heliacal rising and the Dogon sunwheel represents it. So did the megalithic builders.  So, what you have, is an ancient tribe dating back to 800 B.C., the Dogon, coming out of Egypt using the same artwork representing the same complex ideas at Newgrange, Dowth, and other Megalithic sites . 

Melinda: Who are these megalithic architects that you talk about in your book? Who do you think they were?

James Swagger:  Sure, um, it’s a complex question to answer because what you have to do is effectively profile the people.  We can’t have a direct answer because we don’t know where they came from. All we know is what they left us and what they left us gives us an inkling into a race of people. So if you want to know who were the Greeks, who were the Egyptians, you effectively have to look at what they did, then you can build a profile of what or who they are.  We know the megalithic builders were astronomers, we know they were mariners, we know that they were interested in acoustics because there’s an acoustics elements to these civilizations. There is one little trace of evidence that the Celts, who are typically dating back as far as 1500 B.C, inherited these ancient monuments. And they knew a race of people called, uh, Tuatha De Danann, who were basically supposed to come from the Western seas. They are a mystery into themselves and what we know about them comes from the Celtic mythological tales of this race of people who had these monuments. 

Melinda: Where is Tuatha De Danann from?

James Swagger:  What we know is that Tuatha De Danann came from the western seas and that makes you look towards the western Seas as a source of origin.  We have these master mariners who are interested in astronomy and able to use complex construction methods to build, show, and develop your observations on astronomy as teaching platforms. 

The problem is, in the Western seas in Ireland, we don’t have anything until we get to America. One theory I do employ, is that there is an ancient map showing a mythological continent called Hy Brasil, as a source of origin for Tuatha De Danann.  It’s a 100 kilometers off the coast of Cork and it’s a sunken island as well.  When you look under the waves, geological data shows that there is a sand bank exactly where Hy Brasil is on the ancient map. They have the exact look and exact land mass as well. The sand banks are exactly the same size as the ones on the ancients’ maps. And there’s not just one map of Hy Brasil, there’s many maps, and they all date back to the middle ages. There was actually expeditions sent to look for Hy Brasil but they never found it because you have to look underneath the waves to find it. When was that landmass above the water? Some time between 4 and 10,000 B.C.  It’s found in some scientific measurable data i.e. the maps and the land banks. And it’s not just the only source. What I mean is, there could have been a network of islands, not just that island. You can only trace your evidence so far back, Melinda.

Melinda: How did Tua De Dannan build these passage graves, if they were the architects?

James Swagger: Sure, ummm, in particular you use styles of megalithic construction. You have stone circles; you have megalithic tombs. I like to call them megalithic cairns and I can because a cairn is basically made with stones.  Some people like to call them megalithic cairns, which takes away the tomb functions, and this common kind of archaeological mindset that they weren’t anything but tombs. They were temples and so the stone circles were effectively temples too. 

You also have standing stones and stone roads. There’s problems with having them built cus, eh, they’re not all small stones. They vary in size from a couple of tons to several hundred tons-the ones in Brittany could be 1000 tons. Oh, yes, to build the megalithic tombs, these cairns, they would have had to map the horizon.  They would have watched the sunrise in the East and set in the west during the spring and autumn equinoxes. During  the winter, the equinox would have rose in the southeast and set in the southwest. During the summer, the equinox would have set in the northeast and northwest. So, they eventually would have to have had to understand this and map out the horizon accordingly. If they wanted to then build their passageways, they would have had to pick one of these special days. A lot of tombs use the various range of alignments. The megalithic tombs, they would have also probably put standing stones and stone roads to mark the alignments. We see these standing stones at Newgrange. 

Um, yeah, so in terms of other logistics and the moving of heavy stones, I mean, people try to figure out how they moved the smaller stones first. There is one capstone and it’s in Dublin, Ireland. It weighs 150 tons and is the largest in Europe. Ummm, so there’s questions arising around the really heavy stones. But in terms of the smaller construction that moved field materials, people reckon they had boats and they travelled the coastlines and the waterways to bring in the materials. So that’s a safe bet, if you want to call it that, Melinda.

Melinda: The ancient alien theorists say that some of the ancient sites couldn’t have been built by humans. Could they have been built by humans?

James Swagger:  Oh, sure! I mean there is an ancient alien hypothesis, for sure, and the Nommo, the Dogon’s teachers, are synonymous with the star system Sirius. Even Tuatha De Danann talked about aerial battles and force fields that were trying to be breached from the air. Which reads like science fiction stories today, but may actually have some historical facts. Ummm, this is not something I actually go into in my research. There’s evidence in historical, mythological accounts there.  There’s also stories of acoustic levitation of the blocks. Ummm, that’s how they lift some of the heavier stones. So, yes, there’s a variety of theories about the construction. But I think a lot of material could have been shifted by man power.  It doesn’t need the help of ancient aliens hypothesis like that, but it is a very strong possibility, and it may have actually been both. It may have been a case where the constructions were aided by star beings from the ancient past. I think a lot of tombs fell apart around 2000-500 B.C. Around 2000 B.C. the whole megalithic civilization basically disintegrated, fell apart. So, I sometimes think that maybe we had star beings helping us at the start and we tried to copy them. 

Melinda:  You talk about how the geography of the passage graves Knowth, Newgrange, Dowth, Carrowkeel, and Loughcrew have astronomical significance. That the geology has something to do with celestial phenomena. Can you elaborate what you mean?

James Swagger:  They’re basically what you call megalithic cemeteries but they’re also megalithic observatories as well. The cemetery function in these places is a misnomer. It doesn’t help to explain what they are. They pick all these locations across, particularly Ireland, but they’re all across the British Isles and Western Europe. So, yeah, these various places they basically picked them based on hill peaks or lines in geographic locations that are good to observe. A lot of these are actually on straight lines all across Europe and all across Ireland.  Loughcrew, Carrowkeel, and Newgrange are all on a straight line across a vast distance of hills. Nobody can explain that either.

Melinda: The cairns a Carrowkeel mention another constellation, what was it?

James Swagger: Cassiopeia?  

Melinda: That’s the one!

James Swagger: That’s a theory I developed naturally because a lot of these tombs, cairns, temples, they all line up to the sun and moon. Most predominantly the sun and when you see a cairn with a passage grave, or a passage grave lining itself up…it’s mostly what I concentrated on, Melinda, the passage graves. Obviously, it is a straight line, and it lines up to something on the horizon. You can take the compass, measure the alignment, and look at what it’s pointing to. You also have rock art to help you understand what the alignment is.

 So, predominantly these passage graves align to the sun and the moon. And you’d find a compass measuring them southeast, southwest, northeast, northwest. But the ones in Carrowkeel are very special, because all of them are almost all pointing north or within a few degrees from north.  What’s so special about that, Melinda, is that it rules out the sun and the moon because the sun and moon only rises up due east and due west in the Spring, in Ireland. So, you have to wonder, what else were you looking at? There’s only one other thing and that’s stars. So partly the reasons why I did the constellations in the book was to show that these guys could look at constellations if they wanted to. And they were very sophisticated in constellations. 

So,ummm,  when you measure the Carrowkeel complex the cairns are all right besides each other on different hills- they’re visible from each other. But there’s two of them across the valley like. The whole complex, the Carrowkeel complex, there are plenty of these cairns. They’re called cairns because their passageways are very short and they’re not long as compared to Newgrange. They’re only 5 meter as opposed to 20 meters. These Carrowkeel monuments, within on degree of accuracy, point to the constellation Cassiopeia.  So to have that much accuracy, they would have also pointed to the constellation Cassiopeia in 3500 B.C.  It’s very, very significant and it’s where I develop my theory that they were actually tracking stars. Why you would track 5 stars at the same time on a constellation? If you wanted to know how the sky worked above you.

Melinda: So, why was the passageway so short at Carrowkeel? You mentioned 5 feet.

James Swagger: Various styles of construction. They’re built on high terrain probably 1000 feet. They don’t have very big kerb stones. Most of the kerb stones are buried in the ground. Above the complex, it’s mostly small chippings of stones from field material. Different style of designs. Newgrange and Knowth have some of the longest passages in Europe. They’re very special like, they’re long passage graves. Again, the ones at Carrowkeel are older by 300 years, so they may have initially started there, and they may have took the methods and applied it down in Newgrange.

END OF PART I